We love running into Father Dan and his wife Kate on Haight with their sweet dog Maggie. Hailing from Flint, Michigan, they’ve just celebrated their one-year anniversary living here in the rectory of All Saint’s Episcopal Church on Waller. They can often be found dancing it up at Club Deluxe or perhaps having a cocktail at Zam Zam. Wherever they may show up, we’re grateful for their presence in the neighborhood!
Haight Street Voice: Alright guys, here we are. We are at All-Saint’s Episcopal Church and we’re about to interview the fantastic Father Dan. Here he is!
Father Dan: Hello!
HSV: Hi Father Dan!
FD: Hi Linda!
HSV: So here we are, we’re Haight Street Voice, live — well it’s not live, but we’re doing the interview because we want to find out more about Father Dan. So welcome to Haight Street Voice!
FD: Yeah! Welcome to All Saint’s Episcopal Church. We’ve been in this particular spot for about 100 years. We started out around the corner on Masonic before that in 1903, so we’ve been in the neighborhood for 119 years.
HSV: Saw that in that groovy ad you placed in Haight Street Voice.
FD: Yes indeed.
HSV: “119 years in step with the Haight Ashbury …” right?
FD: Yes, how about that!
HSV: Now are we able to take a quick little tour of the church?
FD: We sure can, we sure can.
HSV: Cool! Let’s do a little walkthrough, guys!
FD: Here’s our prayer board here, it’s a whiteboard that we erase every week so you can come by and put a prayer request out and we keep you in our hearts for the week.
HSV: Aww.
FD: And then we clear it off because as you can see it gets a lot of use and we run out of space to put it people’s names.
HSV: Wonderful. I had no idea. That’s good to know.
FD: Yeah, it gets well used.
HSV: Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
FD: Absolutely. [walking up stairs into church]
HSV: Wow.
FD: This is the church. And it’s been more or less like this for its history. After they moved it around the corner, they added these extra wings here.
HSV: Okay.
FD: Before it was just kind of narrower between the pillars. They still move buildings around here, so back in the day, however they did it, they hoisted it up and moved it around the corner from Masonic to Waller when they got a bigger lot.
HSV: And you’re here how many nights a week? Or days or mornings …
FD: Well, you know the schedule right now there’s pretty much something going on 6 days a week. Saturday is a quiet day unless there’s a special event. But Sunday through Friday there’s something or multiple things happening up in the space here. Plus, a number of groups in the community use our space too, use the garden space and parish hall space — 12-step groups use it to gather, children’s music education, a lot of different folks use it.
HSV: Great. Good to know.
FD: Yeah.
HSV: I mean I’ve lived here forever and I didn’t know any of this.
FD: Yeah, it’s a busy, busy space.
HSV: [point to organ] Do you play the …
FD: I do not. We are blessed to have a preacher — he’s our organist and choir director, and he also keeps track — Bill does — of groups that use the building and kind of keeps an eye on the place. So we’re really lucky to have him.
But nope, I don’t even know how to turn [the organ] on [laughter] let alone play it, and that’s probably just as well cuz I’d get in a lot of trouble.
HSV: I know that you have an image from the Psychedelic SF Gallery …
FD: We do! Purple Jesus!
HSV: Yes! Do you mind showing us that?
FD: [walking to front of church] I will!
HSV: Because I think people would get a kick out of that.
FD: There was already an empty nail on the wall so there must’ve been something hanging here back in the day. So this is the Purple Jesus.
HSV: Wow!
FD: By Alex Gray that we got from the Psychedelic SF Gallery.
HSV: Shoutout to those folks over there!
FD: Absolutely.
HSV: That’s gorgeous.
FD: I’m delighted to have it in here. It’s a beautiful image and it kind of fits in with the neighborhood certainly and with what we’re about. It’s very incarnational, right? Very we’re made flesh because you can see, obviously, you know, underneath the flesh is either bone or sinew and all of that. It’s a beautiful piece.
HSV: Yes it is.
FD: A delightful gift. Really generous.
HSV: Okay! Wow. Thanks for sharing that.
FD: You’re welcome!
HSV: Yay! And then we’re being treated — Father Dan is going to take us up to the house with Kate, which is right next door, kids!
FD: Yep! Right next door. We call it a “rectory”. That’s where the priest is blessed to live.
HSV: Do you need to lock up or is it …?
FD: I’m just going to lock the gate down here.
HSV: Okay, cool. And I guess I should point out for people that don’t live in the neighborhood that this is Masonic and Waller, between Masonic and Ashbury. [he turns to right back toward garden] Oh cool! We’re going even deeper here. Great!
FD: Since we’re here.
HSV: Great, fantastic! Thank you.
FD: The backyard doubles as our backyard and the church yard, so it’s a multi-use space.
HSV: Wow.
FD: So the infants and toddlers who are part of the Music Together group that uses our space, they meet out here.
HSV: So sweet.
FD: And then in the parish hall, upper and lower part, other groups meet. And then this is really important, this sculpture back here. It’s an artist’s representation of St. Michael, the Archangel. St. Michael is important to this parish. Among his other attributes, he’s the defender of the defenseless. And St. Michael became really important to this congregation when the HIV crisis hit in the late ‘70s and in the ‘80s. So many people obviously in this town suffered and died, but so many members of this congregation. This has been a congregation that’s been open and accepting of queer folk right from the get-go, so it really hit this congregation hard when primarily man after man after man suffered and died. So this represents St. Michael.
HSV: Gorgeous.
FD: It’s a center point of our garden.
HSV: And your garden is gorgeous.
FD: Yes.
HSV: [pointing to angel wall decoration] And who’s this little guy over here?
FD: Well that we brought her with us from Flint. That is a garden angel which Kate’s late mom Joan made for us.
HSV: Aww.
FD: So we brought her from Benton Harbor, Michigan to Flint, Michigan, and from Flint to here. So we plunked her in the garden as well.
HSV: Yay. And we’ll get to Flint in a little bit …
FD: Yeah.
HSV: But thank you for this little tour. Check it out y’all! It’s here! I might have to come down here and watch you in action, Father Dan.
FD: Always welcome.
HSV: Thank you.
FD: So yeah, when we moved here a year ago, we took pictures and sent them back to folks in Michigan saying, “Yeah, this is our backyard now, with ferns and palms and all of that.”
HSV: And you just literally had your one-year anniversary just a couple of weeks ago, right?
FD: Just a couple of weeks ago, yes. Arrived in late May. So here we are! Absolutely loving it.
HSV: And here we are [camera pan]: this is Waller, between Masonic and then, that’s Ashbury. [dog and woman approaching]
FD: That’s Katie and Ogden! Hello Ogden!
HSV: He’s gorgeous! Look at that!
FD: [reaching for treats] It’s gonna be mostly crumbs, but that’s okay.
Katie: It’s okay, thank you so much!
HSV: Looks like a wolf. Beautiful!
FD: Good to see you!
K: Good to see you as well!
HSV: Have a good one!
FD: I gotta reload my pockets! [with doggie treats]
HSV: You do! So yeah, this issue is the Dog Days of Summer and it’s going to be nothing but dogs on the cover.
FD: Nothin’ but dogs!
HSV: And it’s about family and community and connection and our chosen family, our blood family, and our relations, all relations.
FD: Yes!
HSV: So that’s why having you in this edition is [deciding where best to have him sit, light-wise] is so important. Did you get your beverage?
FD: I’m gonna take a sip right now, gonna put it in a glass.
HSV: [panning room] So this is the parish — what do you call it?
FD: This is a rectory.
HSV: A rectory.
FD: Kate’s in here working in the kitchen …
HSV: Kate’s in here, the lovely, the one and only, Kate! Can I peek in?
FD: Oh please do!
Kate: What are we doin? [laughing]
HSV: We’re not live, we’re just doing a little video!
K: [waving and smiling] Hi!
FD: Kate’s making a lovely heirloom tomato salad for dinner tonight.
HSV: Nice!
K: Just like the little Italian ladies I used to work with in Chicago taught me!
HSV: Yeah, when I lived in New York, man, yeah. Those little Italian ladies know what they’re doin! Alright! Thanks Kate! We love you!
Oh and you know what, we should probably introduce the crowd to Maggie [their dog on stoop].
FD: Oh yeah, Maggie! This is Maggie.
HSV: You don’t have to make her get up.
FD: Yeah, Maggie loves the stoop. Sometimes I’ll call her “StoopDog”!
HSV: There she is!
FD: StoopDog cuz this is her favorite spot.
HSV: We love you Maggie. Everybody loves you in the neighborhood.
FD: Of course! So she gets to stay securely here and survey her domain. Two walks a day through the length of the Panhandle and down the length of Haight Street, the Upper Haight, so she’s got it pretty good life. She’s 14.
HSV: Wow, she seems like a little pup.
FD: We’ve had her since she was 6 months. We rescued her from a kill shelter in southwest Michigan, so we’ve had her almost her whole life.
HSV: You’re gonna be on the cover of the magazine too, Mags! Yeah!
Yeah, creatures are so important on this planet.
FD: Yep.
HSV: Yeah, so it’s all our relations, our family, our creatures, our chosen family, our blood family, the people in the community, the brothers and sisters we see every day, we say hello to …
FD: Yes, exactly.
HSV: That’s what this edition is about. Because I have had the famous people like Bob Weir and Peter Coyote and things, but the real people here is what I want to focus on in this one.
And I want to hear your story, Father Dan! So I’m going to ask you about what got you here and all of that.
[head back into the house]
FD: Alright! We’ll do it!
HSV: Perfect. Cool! We’re winging it here, kids.
FD: You need an overhead light or anything?
HSV: No I think we’re fine, no, looks perfect. There’s Maggie! Wanna join in?
FD: Oh, who knows …
HSV: Okay, so, let me get my book out … Hey Mags, okay you can be on camera while I get this out … One of my first questions was about you just as a human being and what got you started in the work that you do. What was the calling, where did that all start, how old were you?
FD: Ah well, you know, in my vocation, the call is kind of hard to define. Just, it’s a sense. You know it. I knew it from as early as I can remember this is what I was supposed to do. And it took a while to get there, you know, as so much of life does. But found my way to seminary in my mid- to late-30s and was ordained a priest — oh gosh, actually it’ll be 16 years ago next Friday, June 24th.
HSV: Wow.
FD: So 2006 I was ordained a priest in the episcopal church. That was in southwest Michigan in Benton, Harbor. So we got your handy Michigan map here [holds up hand]. You’ve got the [pointing to hand] upper peninsula here too, but I’m a troll, I’m a below-the-bridge guy. That’s what they call us. [laughter], So Lake Michigan is here, Chicago’s right over here, Benton Harbor is here right along the coast, I grew up in the Grand Rapids area which is about here, Detroit’s over here and Ann Arbor, just for reference, and then we moved here from Flint, which is just up here, about an hour north of Detroit. And yes, [pointing to thumb], this is called The Thumb of Michigan because it really does look like a mitten.
HSV: And is Flint rural? I’ve never been, so …
FD: Yes, Flint is the seat of Genessey County, Flint is the birthplace of General Motors, it was the birthplace of United Auto Workers. In its heyday, it had — it was never a big city, 200,000 people max when there were 7 General Motors plants there and 80,000 people worked for General Motors in the city. When General Motors pulled up stake and scattered all over, the town really struggled. The population now is 80-90,000 from a high of 200,000, so that’s more than half.
HSV: Wow.
FD: It’s a town that really has had lot of hard knocks over the years. But a great city, great people. A town full of characters. So when people said, “Oh, you’re moving to San Francisco? That’s kind of a crazy town.” It’s like, “You know, Flint prepared me well. There’s been nothing that has surprised me in San Francisco, from kind of a people standpoint — except maybe the naked guys walking around …
HSV: [laughter]
FD: There’s not a lot — at least by choice — of naked guys walking around in Flint. But otherwise, Flint is just full of …
HSV: Is there a lot of music, a lot of art …?
FD: Yeah, for a town its size, the University of Michigan has a campus there, it has a good community college, it has a big level-one trauma hospital there, so all the really hard cases from the county go there. It’s also the safety-net hospital so they take care of everybody —that’s Hurley Medical Center. I was on the board with that for awhile. St Paul’s, the church I was in, was one of the downtown churches. It’s been there about 180 years, the parish has, and about 150 in that particular spot. So very much a sort of legacy parish in Flint. I was there — Kate and I were there during the water crisis, so we were certainly involved in some of that. Not as much as many of my colleagues were, but we played a part in that.
So Flint was really a good preparation because there was so much going on. I had responsibilities with the larger church …
[Mags comes to say hello to camera] Hi Mags …
FD: … so it was a really … I was there for 6 years and it felt like 10 just because the concentrated level of work that was there. There was so much going on that when I got there wasn’t really expected. But, you know, things happen.
HSV: Do you mind if I ask what your age is?
FD: I am …
HSV: You don’t have to answer.
FD: I am 56!
HSV: Wow. I thought you were way younger. Not that that’s old, but anyway. I’m kind of winging it here, but when you were talking I was thinking about, because this is the family and community edition, I’m interviewing 2 guys who live around the corner on Central — Andy and Richard — being a father in the neighborhood and what that’s like for them … but your growing up in Michigan and sort of your family background, the trajectory of your life. Did you ever see yourself, back then in Michigan, did you ever perceive that you were going to end up in the Haight Ashbury?
FD: No.
HSV: Do you know what I mean? Like did you know there was this great adventure ahead of you and all of that?
FD: No, had no idea.
HSV: So what was the crossing point when you found out you were coming here?
FD: Well, Kate and I — her older daughter Molly lived here, has lived here for several years — 6, 7, 8 years. We came out in 2017 for a week just a vacation to visit. I had never been to the City before and I think Kate and been here when she was a kid I think, kind of passing through to Hawaii or something, so it was really a first visit for both of us. And you know we just thought it was a hoot. We saw in that week — people who come, there’s just so much to do you just can’t see everything in a year, let alone a week, but saw enough of it that we thought it was a pretty cool City. But even then, never had a sense of, you know, “Some day I’m gonna move to San Francisco.”
HSV: But it was on your radar as far as the whole — Harvey Milk .. the evolution of San Francisco, the hippies and the whole thing?
FD: Oh yeah. Knew enough about the City and its history and everything, but no, really wasn’t making any sort of plans to find a way to move here. It just happened to work out that way that I was feeling maybe it was to look to move on from Flint, you know, having worked so hard for those 6 years.
Kate actually found it first. My wife Kate is a librarian and sometimes she would sit at her desk and she would cross reference “cities where I — Kate — would like to live that have episcopal churches looking for priests.” She would send me little things, you know, from all around the country.
HSV: That’s wonderful!
FD: But she found that this parish, All Saint’s, was in the process of looking for a new priest, a new parish priest. So she kind of put it on the radar screen. And then the guy back in Michigan who sort of helps clergy find places to go, he also mentioned this place. He said, “You know, there’s an Anglo-Catholic parish in San Francisco who’s looking for somebody.” By that time, Kate had already found it, and I said, “Is that All Saint’s?” And he said, “It is!”
HSV: Wow.
FD: So it seemed to be rather providential, the stars aligning — whatever your divine view is, so …
HSV: That’s actually a good segue because I think there are a lot of people, myself included, as to … you know, I didn’t know what episcopal was, and I don’t really want to go too far down that road because it’s about this community. But … people see you walking down the street, “Oh, who’s that Catholic guy …” They maybe don’t understand, or like, oh no, I’m gonna get in trouble because I’m drinking a beer on the street, all that. And what I’ve come to know from obviously you and Kate and the whole thing is that you guys are so — there’s no judgment. You don’t judge people. So I think that that would be something very interesting to hear from your mouth. I mean, you’ll see kids out there smoking weed — not that that’s bad (!)
FD: Yeah.
HSV: Or you even broke up a fight, I kind of wanted to touch on that. So as far as the no judgement, yes you’re a religious, spiritual person, but you’re not forcing Catholicism on people. I wanted to clarify that for people, that you’re not going around preaching to people that they must feel this way or that.
FD: Oh no, not at all, not at all.
HSV: I just wanted to clarify that with everyone. I think that’s important.
FD: So, yeah, I’m a priest in the episcopal church, and this particular parish has what we call an Anglo-Catholic history to it. So … probably the best way to describe us is we are … our ritual is pretty traditional and formal, not stuffy, but we really honor the traditions.
HSV: And you read from the Bible. I’ve seen some of your Facebook LIVES.
FD: Yes, it’s very much within the mainstream of Christianity, but our theological outlook, our social outlook is very progressive, very liberal. So we blend traditional kind of worship with a progressive outlook and preaching and outlook of the Bible and society.
So for me, and for us in the church, it’s really all about Jesus, and there’s all kinds of facets about Jesus, but what really draws me is that Jesus hung out with everybody, right?
HSV: Yeah.
FD: He broke bread with everybody, but he paid a particular emphasis and attention and care to those who were on the margins, or those who society kind of pushed to the margins. So that’s really where I take my influence from, whether I was in Benton Harbor, which is a very poor, small city, or Flint, which is a very poor, medium-sized city, and now San Francisco, which is one of the wealthiest cities in the country, but has pockets of poverty and struggle.
For me, it’s really been a good fit. I believe in a ministry of presence and visibility, so that’s why I’m out and about dressed as I am.
HSV: We love having you here!
FD: It’s so that people know. It’s opens up avenues for questions and conversation, and people are really great about it. The nice thing about the Haight, right, is that people dress in all kinds of interesting attire, so in some ways I don’t really stand out, right?
HSV: [laughs]
FD: Right? Because a lot of people actually go, “Oh cool! Where’d you get that? Where can I get one of those?” Just today, somebody wanted to know where he could get an outfit like this. But once people find out that I’m an episcopal priest and someone that they can talk to, it opens up conversation. And I think it’s really helpful too so that — no matter who I’m talking with, other people whether they’re people who live in the neighborhood or tourists who are walking through, you know I think it’s really important for them to see that all kinds of different people talk to each other in the Haight.
HSV: Right!
FD: This is a great neighborhood, a great community, and I just see myself as kind of a bridge-builder. Somebody who — my ordination vows as a priest call me to related to everybody: rich and poor, young and old … everybody. So for me, I take that every seriously.
HSV: So when you guys first came, you were coming at the tail end of Covid, so you came in here when a lot of the shops were closed, some were just reopening, so I wanted to ask what your first impressions were when you were first living here and then where you’ve seen it go in this last year, as well as where you’d like to see it go, and how can we — my magazine as well as the people in the community help the community get stronger and stronger?
FD: Sure. It was an interesting time to change parishes in a pandemic.
HSV: Yeah, hello.
FD: When I left Flint, there wasn’t really a proper goodbye. It was kind of a drive through the church parking lot, right? When we moved here, we still, you know, the episcopal church as liberal as we are socially we’ve been very conservative with the pandemic in terms of, we’ve been very cautious in re-opening. We’re still requiring masks inside and that sort of thing, so we haven’t had a big welcoming party. Here it is a year and usually the new priest comes and there’s a big potluck and we haven’t been able to do that because of the pandemic. So that’s been kind of a strange goodbye from Flint and hello to here, is that that didn’t happen, you know, follow the normal pattern.
HSV: Right.
FD: And being around the neighborhood, much the same thing. I eat breakfast at the Pork Store every day. My first experience there the counter wasn’t open because of Covid. They had a few tables and the doors were open and everything but you couldn’t sit at the counter. The bars, same thing. Zam Zam, you couldn’t sit at the bar; you could sit at the tables but everybody was masked and it was all strange.
And of course, that’s changed. Club Deluxe opened and then it closed for a while because with that kind of venue, it’s really difficult. [Maggie comes to say hey] Oh yeah, she’s gonna be at you …
HSV: It’s okay! Maggie! It’s the dog issue, it’s okay! You’re part of it. [barks]
FD: But you know, I’m a long walker, somebody who gets out and walks around the neighborhood, so that really helps that you’re not kind of restricted that much by the pandemic stuff when you can be out in the open air.
HSV: Right.
FD: So being able to see things going on, being able to take advantage of the Panhandle and Golden Gate Park and Buena Vista and all the other places. And then slowly things are opening back up. The gallery where you hang out …
HSV: 1506 y’all!
FD: 1506! The Psychedelic Gallery, all the different shops, Gus’s we’re in all the time …
HSV: Yeah …
FD: All of these places are coming back around, but we still heard stories that the storefronts were all full, and now so many of them are empty. But that’s kind of been the history of this neighborhood, right?
HSV: Exactly.
FD: I’ve been reading so many of the books. I just finished reading Love Needs Care, which is — I don’t know if you know that book? It was written in ’70 or ’71 by a physician and another person who were involved in setting up the Free Clinic.
HSV: Oh! Was it Dr. David E. Smith?
FD: Yeah!
HSV: Dear friend. Hello Dr. Dave!
FD: How the neighborhood then in the ‘70s and the ‘80s just kind of imploded, right? And has come back. You know it’s kind of like Flint in a way too, where it’s booming for a while then it’s bust and then it booms and then it busts …
HSV: A lot of it — Bob Weir mentioned this, and Dr. Dave in my previous interviews, saying that there’s periods where bad drugs come through.
FD: Yeah.
HSV: You know, there’s waves. And Sunny even — Love on Haight, hey Sunny, we love you — there’s these waves where people … not that all drugs are good or bad, but the speed and the crack tend to make people go down into the darkness.
FD: Right.
HSV: I kind of wanted to touch upon this. And I wanted to tell you, none of this is going to get published until you approve, but I want to open, free-form it. Like when you saw that fight or you see the kids that are drunk or on bad drugs or smoking crack or these kids arguing …
FD: That’s, from what I’m understanding as somebody new to the neighborhood who has been very graciously welcomed by folk who spend their days on the street — and again largely because I’m not thumping a Bible at them or anything like that …
HSV: Right …
FD: … just hanging out asking questions, listening … I’ve gathered there is a very strong determination in this neighborhood that hard drugs are simply not welcome, and people will be asked to leave [laughs] if they either show up using or looking for anything that’s basically beyond weed and maybe psychedelics. Nothing hard in this neighborhood. People are asked to leave if they want to go down that road.
HSV: Or they’re — we saw a big fight the other day, a ruckus.
FD: Yes, I’m phrasing it delicately.
HSV: Yes, I know. You are.
FD: They’re encouraged to leave in one way or another. I’ve seen that too. So that’s really, to me, that’s encouraging because again, the folk who spend much of their time out on the sidewalk, it’s kind of their yard or front porch, they want to have a safe enjoyable place to live every bit as much as the people who have houses and a place to go to.
HSV: Mmhmm.
FD: So it’s really important I think for everybody who’s in this neighborhood to realize that the vast majority of the people I believe who are hanging out on the street want this to be a peaceful neighborhood every bit as much as the people who are living in the nice houses farther away from Haight Street proper.
HSV: I think that there is some fear from maybe the people that live up the hill and they don’t really understand the street kids, some people complain about all the dogs and all that. I mean, that’s going to happen everywhere, but I think — I’m going to project my own thing, the main thing is that we all sort of need to try and accept each from whatever position we’re in, right? Whether you’re a street kid and you have a dog, right?
FD: Yes.
HSV: … a lot of these dogs are really well treated because the people are with them all day.
FD: Well treated, well trained …
HSV: Loved.
FD: Loved. And I learned early on — I only get high-end, all-meat dog treats. [laughter] A lot of the folk, they’re not feeding their dog dog biscuits that have all kinds of who-knows-what in it. So I learned early on, okay, I’m gonna pop for the better dog treats, so I’ve got freeze-dried animals parts in my pocket, right? [laughter]
HSV: Speaking of which, we’re going to interview the new pet store that’s opening at the Jimi Hendrix Red House.
FD: Yeah! That’s where I got my last batch from!
HSV: We’re very excited. It’s a very beautiful time.
So the second part of my question was, what can we do as a community, also in my magazine, what are the key things are to strengthen our community?
FD: You know, I think …
HSV: Events, or gatherings or … you know what I mean?
FD: Yeah, all of the above. But I think most of it is simply being observant and saying hello.
You know, it’s kind of quirky cuz I’m from the midwest and we make eye contact and we say hello to strangers, right? And that’s kind of weird in either coast. I used to travel to New York on business and people would look at me funny cuz I’d make eye contact on the street. It’s a little easier actually wearing this [points to his priest attire] than when I’m in plain clothes. But lookin’ folk in the eye, somebody who may be sitting on the sidewalk maybe with a dog, maybe smoking a blunt and just looking at them and saying, “Hey, good morning.” You don’t have to engage in some kind of deep conversation. Simply recognize the shared humanity I think is so important. It’s so easy for us in our haste just to walk by people whether we’re judging or not, we’re just people in a hurry, we’re people who are locked into our electronic devices, and this is really a vibrant neighborhood with people all around.
So just engage with folk where they are. You don’t have to try to convert, you don’t have to try to change minds. Just respect and love people where they are. I think that makes a huge difference. Then, you know, then you’ll probably see that the vast majority of people are actually pretty cool.
HSV: Yeah.
FD: And just want love and peace just as much as everybody else does. And I think when we’re estranged from one another that that builds up mistrust and fear. You know, we fear the unknown …
HSV: Of course.
FD: So even if we see somebody every day but we don’t know ‘em, it’s easy to get maybe an impression that’s not exactly right. You don’t have to be best friends with everybody …
HSV: I like the awareness.
FD: … but look somebody in the eye, say hello, good morning, how are you doing today? That’s a big part of it.
Music is so important. I’ve heard other people say this to me: there are so many street musicians, wouldn’t it be cool if there were a place where folk could hang and do maybe more of an open mic sort of a thing. A place where people could just kind of sort of be.
HSV: Read poetry … creative stuff.
FD: Yeah, that kind of thing. There certainly could be an option here at the church. One thing that I’ve noticed is just being on Waller Street, just that block away … there’s such a buzz on Haight Street, but I think that’s where a lot of the activity needs to happen because that’s where the people are. There’s not the same kind of buzz on Waller Street or on Page, the other block. People walk it, but there’s not the buzz, kind of the excitement going on.
HSV: Although we did have our cello guy [Saul Richmond-Rakerd]. I don’t know if you ever saw the guy that was playing cello during Covid playing on Page Street down by Shrader.
FD: No!
HSV: He’s amazing! He’s in the last edition. You’ll have to read it.
FD: Yeah! I did not experience that!
HSV: I was going to ask you: How music is connected to spirituality, how it’s connected to bringing people together. I know you and Kate love the Deluxe, and you love music.
FD: Yes!
HSV: So maybe touch upon the importance and the healing power of music.
FD: Oh yes, absolutely.
HSV: And the history in Haight Ashbury.
FD: I mean, that is something that really binds people together. People have sung songs together for centuries, millennia I expect. In the church, it’s really important. One of my priest mentors, a guy named Father Mike, he said, “Good music will always rescue a bad sermon but a good sermon will not rescue bad music.”
HSV: [laughter]
FD: So I mean music really is key I think in church worship but I think it’s also key to who we are as people in society. When I’m walking down and there’s somebody — Frederick or Banjo Steve playing something on the corner, I will stop and listen! Not just cuz I know the guys and I like ‘em, but the music is good and I appreciate the talent and the spirit and the passion that they put into it. That’s such an important flavor to this neighborhood, as well as kind of more the institutional stuff, you know, Club Deluxe and the other places that have music.
HSV: Right. And then the Psychedelic SF doing the live bands out there …
FD: Oh yeah! The live concerts, and Love on Haight when they put their shows on!
HSV: And they’re going to have Moonalice there on July 23!
FD: Oh, no kidding!
HSV: Yeah, Moonalice!
FD: I mean those things are fantastic, and again, you see all sorts of people in the neighborhood but also tourists and the people coming through. And the people just stop when there’s music! Even if they’re in a hurry and they’re trying to get to a shop or they’re on a time schedule, tourists, they’ll stop and they’ll check it out for a minute.
And of course that’s so much of the history of this neighborhood from what I gather, right?
HSV: Yes!
FD: … From back in the day, from reading your book and so many of the others. So I think that any time that a community can realize really what are its assets — past and present — and build on that. You don’t have to try to reinvent and be something new, you have to kind of keep adapting and moving on with times. But if music is your scene, that’s your history, that’s what you’re good at, you should keep building on that. Because there are people coming through here all the time who are trying to recapture that.
There was just a guy on the corner this afternoon, you probably heard him, I heard him playing “Stairway to Heaven” …
HSV: Oh yeah! I was there!
FD: But in a rare kind of a jazzy sort of a — I almost wanted to stop and start to dance!
HSV: Oh yeah!
FD: I was like, “This is really cool!” There he is just out there obviously trained and really really good. Just out there kinda buskin’ and enjoyin’ it. Man, that’s just a gift to this neighborhood.
HSV: I know, it really is.
Okay, let’s see, what else do I have here, Father Dan? [looking at notes]. I have your 1-year anniversary … oh! What music did you dig when you were growing up? I already asked if you played an instrument — you don’t play piano, we know that!
FD: Yeah, I don’t play. We had a small Hammond organ in the house, Mom did a little church organ work, so I kind of know where the notes are, you know?
HSV: [laughter]
FD: I can plunk out a melody, like maybe if I look at a hymnal, “that does kind of sound like …” I can kind of. But now you can just go to YouTube and you can hear what it sounds like.
HSV: So what were you listening to when you were young. What was your first concert? Was music a big part of your youth?
FD: You know, a fair bit. Growing up in kind of rural mid-Michigan, it was pretty middle-of-the-road, mainstream. There weren’t any sort of alternative stations or anything like if you were in Chicago or Detroit where you could really get a diversity of music. So for me it was kind of middle of the road, country and rock & roll …
HSV: Classics.
FD: Yeah, classics, top-40 kind of stuff. It really wasn’t until going to seminary in Chicago and actually meeting Kate who’s got a much broader musical ear than I do, being introduced to some other genres and some things that are a little more — you know, not that people that everybody’s heard of, people that maybe just a few people have heard of.
HSV: Right.
FD: So coming here, I love the live music because there’s some great original music and there’s some great covers of things that don’t get a lot of play.
Right now the biggest thing we’re probably listening to is Sirius XM, “Little Steven’s Underground Garage” — Steve Van Zandt from …
HSV: From the Sopranos!
FD: Yeah, Sopranos, the E-Street Band …
HSV: Bruce Springsteen, yes!
FD: It’s a great eclectic station where you’ll hear stuff that you’ve heard from the big artists but a lot of interesting new music. I just love that! So then that really kind of seems to fit in with the groove that’s here. But I also haven’t thing for honky-tonk and sort of old country, too. Not the new kind of over-produced pop-sounding stuff, but the stuff that’s goin’ back a few decades. That’s so much fun! And there’s some good rockabilly bands that play at the Club Deluxe. I love that stuff!
HSV: You grew up with Dylan and all that …
FD: Yeah, Dylan, Stones, The Who, the Beatles, but not a ton of Grateful Dead. A few of the big hits but there really wasn’t a big Dead scene, so that’s something kind of new to me, that culture around here.
HSV: That’s cool!
FD: That’s a new thing for me, that kind of longer jam thing. Where I grew up, it was the typical pop radio songs that could get in a 2- to 4-minute block on the radio, right? Not something that was gonna go on for a long time!
HSV: Well the other thing about the Dead too that sort of relates to the theme of the magazine this next edition, for the Summer 2022 edition, is that it’s the Grateful Dead family. The Deadheads are really in a family. We all … the Shakedown Street and the 2 shows I just went to down at Shoreline, people stop you, “Hey! How you doin’!” People, you know, coming out from New York to see them, so there’s this family vibe that’s really beautiful about the Grateful Dead.
FD: Yeah! I see that here with so many folk who spend a lot of time out on the street. They just love it, love it, love it! And, you know, hopin’ for those miracle tickets and all that!
HSV: [laughter]
FD: I’m really enjoying kind of getting a sense of what that is, cuz that’s probably the newest — that’s probably the most different or unexpected thing for me in San Francisco is just that sort of Dead culture and family culture.
HSV: Okay!
And just to go a different path: What’s the darkest thing you’ve seen in San Francisco, or the community here? What is something that concerns you, something where you were really alarmed or … I mean, we don’t have to go too far down that road, but I don’t want it to be all unicorn and rainbows.
FD: No …
HSV: There is light as well as dark …
FD: Well, you know, there are pockets of real desperation, there are people who sort of drift their way through the street who are really troubled. I preached about this a while ago: of all the miracles that Jesus did, if I could pick one miracle that I could do, it would be the casting out demons. Because sort of in Jesus’s day, we understand that now as people with just really severe psychotic breakdowns, right? And there are some folk that you just can’t get through to. They’re … something has snapped and they’re gone.
But even then, you know, that’s even amazing sometimes, is that somebody will just being going on a rant, and it helps that I’m a man and I have a healthy enough of a decent size, I don’t feel psychically in danger, so even just to look at somebody in the middle of that and say, “Hey, how you doin’?” And sometimes just for a second [snaps fingers] somebody will snap out of what they are and say good morning, right? And then go back to talking to whoever it is they’re screaming at that only they can see. That’s one of the hardest things because there seems to be so little that can be done for quality of life.
For people who are hangin’ out living the dream, that’s great. But somebody who’s really got that psychotic break, my heart just goes out because I just don’t know what can be done. There are times that I walk through the Tenderloin too and just see so much that of that …
HSV: I’m from here and the Tenderloin is just so …
FD: … and I think that’s some of the impetus here in the neighborhood too, to kind of regulate what sort of things happen here so that this doesn’t turn into that.
And some of the other, it’s not dark, but some of the mistrust or the misunderstanding between people who are in the neighborhood, you know, that kind of troubles me too. I don’t know if it’s a choice that a person who is more prosperous makes not to engage folk on the street, but when I get that sense of really wanting to be separate, to me that’s kind of dark too.
HSV: Yes.
FD: It doesn’t look like it, but for my spirit, where we’re all called to be one in Christ — we’re all called to be one in something, right? One people, common humanity. When we set up barriers between ourselves that prevents that, that’s kind of — to me that’s really sad and unfortunate. It doesn’t have to be that way. Not everybody would see that as kind of grim but I see that as maybe a missed opportunity.
HSV: Oh yes, I completely concur with that.
Let’s see [looking at notes]: sirens and chaos in the Haight, how can we help — I already asked about that, making a stronger community … alright! @e’ve done 43 minutes and 42 seconds here, Father Dan!
FD: Alright!
HSV: As a closer, I’m gonna ask you what I ask everybody in these little ditties: If you could say something, if you could speak to everybody through a loudspeaker all at once in this community let alone the global community, what would you like to say to everybody?
FD: You know, I believe the vast, vast majority of people want to live in peace, want to live in harmony, don’t want to live in fear, want to have enough. We have that within our ability, I think, to do that as a people. You look globally, and that’s just too big. You know, you look even at a city like San Francisco and that’s too big. But maybe you look at a couple of blocks on Haight Street and you join the streets — the vast majority of the people who are here want to be at peace, don’t want to live in fear, want to live their lives as they understand it and don’t want to create trouble and difficulty for others. I believe that. So how do we do that in this neighborhood, and I think a lot of that is what I talked about: Just makin’ eye contact with people, sayin’ “Hello, how ya doin’?” Trying to eliminate any of those things that engender fear and mistrust. You can’t be best friends with everybody, you know, that’s impossible. But in a neighborhood like this that already has so much goin’ for it — I mean, what a cool neighborhood! SO many interesting people here! Just stop and get to know them! I mean I meet more people in the Panhandle just walkin’ the dog, you know? Just say hello to somebody, somebody who you haven’t met.
HSV: Alright! Thank you Father Dan. We love you!
FD: Linda, love you too, and the work you do. This is a great neighborhood. Thank you for bein’ such an important part of it.
HSV: Yay! Alright! Peace!
FD: Peace!
